[Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver

Cagri Savran savran at purdue.edu
Mon Aug 30 10:49:28 EDT 2010 

I agree with Babak here. If there will be a meeting to discuss issues, let's certainly solve this one but there are other issues about our cleanrooms that  also need to be discussed. 

On Aug 30, 2010, at 7:56 AM, bziaie at purdue.edu wrote:

> That is a good point,  I suggest we have a meeting of the people who use the 
> facility a lot (myself, Dimitri, Minghao, Joerg, etc.) and have more at stake 
> here.  I know some of the faculty who are occasional users although i do not 
> want to sideline them but they would be less affected by a major decision or 
> policy shift.  
> 
> Although i totally agree with John that if this is an epidemic issue it must 
> be  addressed but would like to mention that based on my informal conversations 
> with colleagues we have several other major issues that has hampered effective 
> use of BNC and have caused frustrations.
> 
> BZ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quoting "Qi, Minghao" <mqi at purdue.edu>:
> 
>> All,
>> 
>> Just a technical question: do those missed reservations include the slots
>> within the equipment down time? It would still be important for students to
>> remove reservations when the equipment is down, but if they did not, then
>> they perhaps should not be penalized for not cancelling their reservations
>> when the equipment is not usable anyway.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Minghao
>> 
>> From: bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu
>> [mailto:bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of
>> Appenzeller, Joerg
>> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 1:54 PM
>> To: David B. Janes; capano at ecn.purdue.edu
>> Cc: Weaver, John R; BNC Faculty; Jeff Goecker
>> Subject: Re: [Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION
>> REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver
>> 
>> All,
>> 
>> While I agree that some students like to ignore the rules that are in place
>> intentionally and only care about their own research, there is also always a
>> set of students that are a little more careless but without mal-intent.
>> 
>> I agree with the notion to have a thorough conversation with the respective
>> students on the list and to make sure that the advisors and students are both
>> aware of the action that will be taken if the situation does not improve.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> Joerg
>> 
>> 
>> Joerg Appenzeller
>> 
>> Professor and Scientific Director of Nanoelectronics
>> School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
>> Purdue University
>> Birck Nanotechnology Center, Box 1006
>> 1205 West State Street
>> W. Lafayette, IN 47907-2057
>> 
>> Tel. 765-494-1076
>> Fax. 765-496-8383
>> Email: appenzeller at purdue.edu
>> ________________________________
>> From: bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu
>> [bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of David B. Janes
>> [janes at ecn.purdue.edu]
>> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 1:27 PM
>> To: capano at ecn.purdue.edu
>> Cc: Weaver, John R; BNC Faculty; Jeff Goecker
>> Subject: Re: [Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION
>> REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver
>> 
>> I generally agree with the sentiments expressed by Mike and Xianfan.
>> However, I would like to point out that 12 hours is way too long.  My
>> students routinely process samples where certain process steps must  be
>> done within a few minutes of each other.  This implies that students
>> need to reserve slots on several pieces of equipment in relatively rapid
>> sequence (or perform wet-chemistry steps immediately prior to using a
>> given piece of equipment), and problems with the process at any step
>> makes the next reservation unnecessary (often with just a few minutes
>> notice).   The "equipment down" exemption that Xianfan has proposed
>> would also need to be extended to cover this case.  Perhaps we could
>> institute a financial/access penalty for those students who have an
>> unusually large number of "no-shows" or un-justified late cancellations.
>> 
>> Rather than criminalize every case where a reservation goes un-used, I
>> think we broadly need an environment in which we acknowledge that
>> various circumstances will arise.  This should be balanced with an
>> expectation that all users act responsibly.   Since there are apparently
>> a relatively small number of students who have accounted for a
>> relatively large fraction of the overall un-used slots, I think
>> Dimitri's suggestion of meeting with the specific students is a good
>> short-term approach.  In addition, I would hope that their faculty
>> advisors would understand that this reflects poorly on them (the
>> advisor), and make it clear to their student(s) that this behavior needs
>> to  stop.
>> 
>> In a broader sense, I think this is part of a "my research comes first,
>> and I don't particularly care about other people's ability to be
>> productive/safe" mentality exhibited by a small, but significant, subset
>> of our users.  I listed a few examples in an earlier email in this
>> thread.  Based on numerous discussions with the BNC staff, there are a
>> small number of users who cause a large fraction of our equipment
>> down-time, messes in chem hoods, etc..  In many instances, the
>> individual with this attitude actually degrades their owe research (as
>> well as that of others).   As faculty, I think we have a responsibility
>> to make it clear to students that this overall attitude is not
>> acceptable in a facility such as BNC.
>> 
>> 
>> Dave
>> 
>> 
>> capano at ecn.purdue.edu wrote:
>>> All,
>>> 
>>> It is not at all clear to me why we need a bureaucratic solution to
>>> this problem, and setting up a small committee to deal with it is a
>>> bureaucratic solution.  The situation Dave Janes describe is largely
>>> correct.  Students hedge their bets and schedule multiple slots for
>>> equipment because they cannot predict how quickly earlier processing
>>> steps will be successfully completed. It's logical, but creates
>>> unnecessary delays and is inconsiderate of other users.
>>> 
>>> I would like to see the following policy implemented:
>>> 
>>> 1. Signing up for any piece of equipment implies a commitment to pay
>>> for the time scheduled unless cancelled at least 12 hours before the
>>> start time reserved.
>>> 2. Missed reservations
>>>     First offense: loss of privileges for 5 days.
>>>     Second offense: loss of privileges for one month.
>>>     Third offense: loss of privileges.
>>> 
>>> Part of our problem is the "three strikes" culture.  I favor an
>>> environment where all of us are accountable for our actions and we
>>> accept the responsibility to conduct ourselves in a manner suitable
>>> for a share-user facility FROM THE START.  The culture Dave described
>>> has been in place as long as I've been here (1997). This culture will
>>> only change if we install a new culture with well-defined guidelines
>>> and real consequences.  Telling the faculty that one of their students
>>> missed a reservation is a complete waste of time.  Let's take real
>>> action!
>>> 
>>>       Mike Capano
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Quoting "David B. Janes" <janes at ecn.purdue.edu>:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Dimitri,
>>>> 
>>>> A small group to address this specific issue sounds like a good idea
>>>> -- this could certainly address the short-term issues.   Involvement
>>>> by the faculty advisor has been an important part of the process used
>>>> by the disciplinary sub-committee, and I suggest that we include that
>>>> also.
>>>> 
>>>> In the longer term, I think that we need to update our policies re
>>>> equipment sign-up and cancellation, so that it's clear to everyone
>>>> what is expected.
>>>> 
>>>> Dave
>>>> 
>>>> Peroulis, Dimitrios wrote:
>>>>> Dave,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for your email. Besides Eric's and Steve's suggestions, there
>>>>> was also a proposal from me yesterday.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As for the P&P committee handling the issue, I believe it is a bit
>>>>> too big to handle this. The P&P only gets together once a month or
>>>>> so and many times there are irresolvable conflicts for faculty (e.g.
>>>>> teaching - that was the case for me last semester). On the other
>>>>> hand, the subcommittee that handles violations (headed by Tim
>>>>> Fisher) is much smaller and has meetings on a need-to-discuss basis
>>>>> when a problem arises. I believe we need to handle this issue that way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks
>>>>> Dimitri
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu
>>>>> [mailto:bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of
>>>>> David B. Janes
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 3:56 PM
>>>>> To: Jeff Goecker
>>>>> Cc: Weaver, John R; BNC Faculty
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION
>>>>> REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver
>>>>> 
>>>>> BNC Faculty Colleagues:
>>>>> 
>>>>> As part of this thread, Eric and Steve have made suggestions
>>>>> regarding how to rectify the situation.  I would like to point out
>>>>> that the Policy and Procedures committee has discussed this general
>>>>> issue several times in the past (although not the specific recent
>>>>> situation addressed in John's email).  While "suspend privileges" or
>>>>> "charge the account even if the equipment is not used" may be valid
>>>>> approaches in some situations/equipment, there are legitimate cases
>>>>> where a reserved slot cannot be used.  For example, in many
>>>>> processes, a number of pieces of equipment are needed in sequence;
>>>>> if one piece of equipment is down, there is no use for the next
>>>>> piece of equipment.  Likewise, if a prior processing step does not
>>>>> work properly.  Couple this with the fact that we have a number of
>>>>> time-critical process steps, and there will be unavoidable times
>>>>> where a sign-up slot would not be used - and would not likely be of
>>>>> use to other people (since they would not have time to perform the
>>>>> prior processing steps).
>>>>> 
>>>>> That being said, the situation described in John's email is way
>>>>> beyond these circumstances. Please discuss the situation with your
>>>>> students -- particularly those who have been frequent violators.
>>>>> I view this as one of several "citizenship" issues that we have at
>>>>> Birck
>>>>> -- other issues include mis-use/breakage of equipment, failure to
>>>>> clean up after one's self, and use of other groups' specialty
>>>>> chemicals/supplies without permission and/or without contributing to
>>>>> replacement costs.
>>>>> 
>>>>> By way of cc, I will ask John and/or Jeff to provide a copy of the
>>>>> spreadsheet (omitted from the original email),
>>>>> 
>>>>> As I said in an earlier email, we have put the P&P committee on
>>>>> indefinite hold -- primarily due to lack of participation by
>>>>> faculty.  If you would like to participate in shaping BNC lab access
>>>>> and safety policies, the P&P committee would be an excellent venue.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Dave
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jeff Goecker wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> BNC Faculty -
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I need your help on a situation that is impacting the ability of
>>>>>> researchers to use the BNC equipment.  We are beginning to reach
>>>>>> epidemic proportions of people reserving equipment and not using
>>>>>> the equipment - and not cancelling their reservations so that
>>>>>> someone else can use that equipment.  This practice causes false
>>>>>> bottlenecks and leaves the equipment unused.  In the first 8 weeks
>>>>>> of this fiscal year, we have had 1165 incidents.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> An example is one user who has 20 unused and not canceled
>>>>>> reservations on the MJB-3 aligner in 8 weeks - that's 2 ½ unused
>>>>>> reservations every week.  This is a very highly used piece of
>>>>>> equipment, and we are receiving complaints that this equipment is
>>>>>> not available.  This same user has 12 unused and not canceled
>>>>>> reservations on the CHA evaporator - another critical piece of
>>>>>> equipment.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> The CHA evaporator has had 82 unused and not canceled reservations
>>>>>> in the last 8 weeks, more than 10 per week.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Please ask your students to be more courteous to the other
>>>>>> researchers in the BNC.  The attached spreadsheet shows those users
>>>>>> with at least
>>>>>> 8 unused and not cancelled reservations in the past 8 weeks by
>>>>>> Coral user name.  I have also highlighted incidents where one user
>>>>>> had at least 8 unused and not cancelled reservations on a
>>>>>> particular piece of equipment.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> While it is understood that there are legitimate incidents where a
>>>>>> user reserves a piece of equipment but cannot use it, this
>>>>>> happening at a very high frequency is more likely abuse.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanking you for your consideration,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> */John R. Weaver/*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> */Facility Manager/*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> */Birck Nanotechnology Center/*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> */Purdue University/*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> */(765) 494-5494/*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> */jrweaver at purdue.edu/*
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> */
>>>>>> /*
>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Bnc-faculty-all-list mailing list
>>>>>> Bnc-faculty-all-list at ecn.purdue.edu
>>>>>> https://engineering.purdue.edu/ECN/mailman/listinfo/bnc-faculty-all-li
>>>>>> st
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> 
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