[Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver

[bziaie at purdue.edu]

That is a good point,  I suggest we have a meeting of the people who use the 
facility a lot (myself, Dimitri, Minghao, Joerg, etc.) and have more at stake 
here.  I know some of the faculty who are occasional users although i do not 
want to sideline them but they would be less affected by a major decision or 
policy shift.  

Although i totally agree with John that if this is an epidemic issue it must 
be  addressed but would like to mention that based on my informal conversations 
with colleagues we have several other major issues that has hampered effective 
use of BNC and have caused frustrations.

BZ

 



Quoting "Qi, Minghao" <mqi at purdue.edu>:

> All,
> 
> Just a technical question: do those missed reservations include the slots
> within the equipment down time? It would still be important for students to
> remove reservations when the equipment is down, but if they did not, then
> they perhaps should not be penalized for not cancelling their reservations
> when the equipment is not usable anyway.
> 
> Thanks,
> Minghao
> 
> From: bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu
> [mailto:bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of
> Appenzeller, Joerg
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 1:54 PM
> To: David B. Janes; capano at ecn.purdue.edu
> Cc: Weaver, John R; BNC Faculty; Jeff Goecker
> Subject: Re: [Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION
> REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver
> 
> All,
> 
> While I agree that some students like to ignore the rules that are in place
> intentionally and only care about their own research, there is also always a
> set of students that are a little more careless but without mal-intent.
> 
> I agree with the notion to have a thorough conversation with the respective
> students on the list and to make sure that the advisors and students are both
> aware of the action that will be taken if the situation does not improve.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Joerg
> 
> 
> Joerg Appenzeller
> 
> Professor and Scientific Director of Nanoelectronics
> School of Electrical and Computer Engineering
> Purdue University
> Birck Nanotechnology Center, Box 1006
> 1205 West State Street
> W. Lafayette, IN 47907-2057
> 
> Tel. 765-494-1076
> Fax. 765-496-8383
> Email: appenzeller at purdue.edu
> ________________________________
> From: bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu
> [bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of David B. Janes
> [janes at ecn.purdue.edu]
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 1:27 PM
> To: capano at ecn.purdue.edu
> Cc: Weaver, John R; BNC Faculty; Jeff Goecker
> Subject: Re: [Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION
> REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver
> 
> I generally agree with the sentiments expressed by Mike and Xianfan.
> However, I would like to point out that 12 hours is way too long.  My
> students routinely process samples where certain process steps must  be
> done within a few minutes of each other.  This implies that students
> need to reserve slots on several pieces of equipment in relatively rapid
> sequence (or perform wet-chemistry steps immediately prior to using a
> given piece of equipment), and problems with the process at any step
> makes the next reservation unnecessary (often with just a few minutes
> notice).   The "equipment down" exemption that Xianfan has proposed
> would also need to be extended to cover this case.  Perhaps we could
> institute a financial/access penalty for those students who have an
> unusually large number of "no-shows" or un-justified late cancellations.
> 
> Rather than criminalize every case where a reservation goes un-used, I
> think we broadly need an environment in which we acknowledge that
> various circumstances will arise.  This should be balanced with an
> expectation that all users act responsibly.   Since there are apparently
> a relatively small number of students who have accounted for a
> relatively large fraction of the overall un-used slots, I think
> Dimitri's suggestion of meeting with the specific students is a good
> short-term approach.  In addition, I would hope that their faculty
> advisors would understand that this reflects poorly on them (the
> advisor), and make it clear to their student(s) that this behavior needs
> to  stop.
> 
> In a broader sense, I think this is part of a "my research comes first,
> and I don't particularly care about other people's ability to be
> productive/safe" mentality exhibited by a small, but significant, subset
> of our users.  I listed a few examples in an earlier email in this
> thread.  Based on numerous discussions with the BNC staff, there are a
> small number of users who cause a large fraction of our equipment
> down-time, messes in chem hoods, etc..  In many instances, the
> individual with this attitude actually degrades their owe research (as
> well as that of others).   As faculty, I think we have a responsibility
> to make it clear to students that this overall attitude is not
> acceptable in a facility such as BNC.
> 
> 
> Dave
> 
> 
> capano at ecn.purdue.edu wrote:
> > All,
> >
> > It is not at all clear to me why we need a bureaucratic solution to
> > this problem, and setting up a small committee to deal with it is a
> > bureaucratic solution.  The situation Dave Janes describe is largely
> > correct.  Students hedge their bets and schedule multiple slots for
> > equipment because they cannot predict how quickly earlier processing
> > steps will be successfully completed. It's logical, but creates
> > unnecessary delays and is inconsiderate of other users.
> >
> > I would like to see the following policy implemented:
> >
> > 1. Signing up for any piece of equipment implies a commitment to pay
> > for the time scheduled unless cancelled at least 12 hours before the
> > start time reserved.
> > 2. Missed reservations
> >      First offense: loss of privileges for 5 days.
> >      Second offense: loss of privileges for one month.
> >      Third offense: loss of privileges.
> >
> > Part of our problem is the "three strikes" culture.  I favor an
> > environment where all of us are accountable for our actions and we
> > accept the responsibility to conduct ourselves in a manner suitable
> > for a share-user facility FROM THE START.  The culture Dave described
> > has been in place as long as I've been here (1997). This culture will
> > only change if we install a new culture with well-defined guidelines
> > and real consequences.  Telling the faculty that one of their students
> > missed a reservation is a complete waste of time.  Let's take real
> > action!
> >
> >        Mike Capano
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Quoting "David B. Janes" <janes at ecn.purdue.edu>:
> >
> >>
> >> Dimitri,
> >>
> >> A small group to address this specific issue sounds like a good idea
> >> -- this could certainly address the short-term issues.   Involvement
> >> by the faculty advisor has been an important part of the process used
> >> by the disciplinary sub-committee, and I suggest that we include that
> >> also.
> >>
> >> In the longer term, I think that we need to update our policies re
> >> equipment sign-up and cancellation, so that it's clear to everyone
> >> what is expected.
> >>
> >> Dave
> >>
> >> Peroulis, Dimitrios wrote:
> >>> Dave,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for your email. Besides Eric's and Steve's suggestions, there
> >>> was also a proposal from me yesterday.
> >>>
> >>> As for the P&P committee handling the issue, I believe it is a bit
> >>> too big to handle this. The P&P only gets together once a month or
> >>> so and many times there are irresolvable conflicts for faculty (e.g.
> >>> teaching - that was the case for me last semester). On the other
> >>> hand, the subcommittee that handles violations (headed by Tim
> >>> Fisher) is much smaller and has meetings on a need-to-discuss basis
> >>> when a problem arises. I believe we need to handle this issue that way.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks
> >>> Dimitri
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu
> >>> [mailto:bnc-faculty-all-list-bounces at ecn.purdue.edu] On Behalf Of
> >>> David B. Janes
> >>> Sent: Saturday, August 28, 2010 3:56 PM
> >>> To: Jeff Goecker
> >>> Cc: Weaver, John R; BNC Faculty
> >>> Subject: Re: [Bnc-faculty-all-list] Coral Reservation Abuse - ACTION
> >>> REQUESTED - on behalf of John Weaver
> >>>
> >>> BNC Faculty Colleagues:
> >>>
> >>> As part of this thread, Eric and Steve have made suggestions
> >>> regarding how to rectify the situation.  I would like to point out
> >>> that the Policy and Procedures committee has discussed this general
> >>> issue several times in the past (although not the specific recent
> >>> situation addressed in John's email).  While "suspend privileges" or
> >>> "charge the account even if the equipment is not used" may be valid
> >>> approaches in some situations/equipment, there are legitimate cases
> >>> where a reserved slot cannot be used.  For example, in many
> >>> processes, a number of pieces of equipment are needed in sequence;
> >>> if one piece of equipment is down, there is no use for the next
> >>> piece of equipment.  Likewise, if a prior processing step does not
> >>> work properly.  Couple this with the fact that we have a number of
> >>> time-critical process steps, and there will be unavoidable times
> >>> where a sign-up slot would not be used - and would not likely be of
> >>> use to other people (since they would not have time to perform the
> >>> prior processing steps).
> >>>
> >>> That being said, the situation described in John's email is way
> >>> beyond these circumstances. Please discuss the situation with your
> >>> students -- particularly those who have been frequent violators.
> >>> I view this as one of several "citizenship" issues that we have at
> >>> Birck
> >>> -- other issues include mis-use/breakage of equipment, failure to
> >>> clean up after one's self, and use of other groups' specialty
> >>> chemicals/supplies without permission and/or without contributing to
> >>> replacement costs.
> >>>
> >>> By way of cc, I will ask John and/or Jeff to provide a copy of the
> >>> spreadsheet (omitted from the original email),
> >>>
> >>> As I said in an earlier email, we have put the P&P committee on
> >>> indefinite hold -- primarily due to lack of participation by
> >>> faculty.  If you would like to participate in shaping BNC lab access
> >>> and safety policies, the P&P committee would be an excellent venue.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Jeff Goecker wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> BNC Faculty -
> >>>>
> >>>> I need your help on a situation that is impacting the ability of
> >>>> researchers to use the BNC equipment.  We are beginning to reach
> >>>> epidemic proportions of people reserving equipment and not using
> >>>> the equipment - and not cancelling their reservations so that
> >>>> someone else can use that equipment.  This practice causes false
> >>>> bottlenecks and leaves the equipment unused.  In the first 8 weeks
> >>>> of this fiscal year, we have had 1165 incidents.
> >>>>
> >>>> An example is one user who has 20 unused and not canceled
> >>>> reservations on the MJB-3 aligner in 8 weeks - that's 2 ½ unused
> >>>> reservations every week.  This is a very highly used piece of
> >>>> equipment, and we are receiving complaints that this equipment is
> >>>> not available.  This same user has 12 unused and not canceled
> >>>> reservations on the CHA evaporator - another critical piece of
> >>>> equipment.
> >>>>
> >>>> The CHA evaporator has had 82 unused and not canceled reservations
> >>>> in the last 8 weeks, more than 10 per week.
> >>>>
> >>>> Please ask your students to be more courteous to the other
> >>>> researchers in the BNC.  The attached spreadsheet shows those users
> >>>> with at least
> >>>> 8 unused and not cancelled reservations in the past 8 weeks by
> >>>> Coral user name.  I have also highlighted incidents where one user
> >>>> had at least 8 unused and not cancelled reservations on a
> >>>> particular piece of equipment.
> >>>>
> >>>> While it is understood that there are legitimate incidents where a
> >>>> user reserves a piece of equipment but cannot use it, this
> >>>> happening at a very high frequency is more likely abuse.
> >>>>
> >>>> Thanking you for your consideration,
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> */John R. Weaver/*
> >>>>
> >>>> */Facility Manager/*
> >>>>
> >>>> */Birck Nanotechnology Center/*
> >>>>
> >>>> */Purdue University/*
> >>>>
> >>>> */(765) 494-5494/*
> >>>>
> >>>> */jrweaver at purdue.edu/*
> >>>>
> >>>> */
> >>>> /*
> >>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Bnc-faculty-all-list mailing list
> >>>> Bnc-faculty-all-list at ecn.purdue.edu
> >>>> https://engineering.purdue.edu/ECN/mailman/listinfo/bnc-faculty-all-li
> >>>> st
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>